Let’s do a hypothetical:

Someone commits a crime.

They get caught, endure a trial and are sentenced.

They apologize for what they’ve done.

They feel regret and remorse.

They serve out their sentence, and get released.

Does society forgive them for their actions?

Do we allow them to get a job? Home? Go to school?

Do we allow them to have a family, or see the family that they left behind?

Does their family forgive them for their wrongdoing?

Ok- are you keeping your answers and thoughts in your head?

Next part-

Someone makes a slur- it can be racist, sexist, xenophobic, homophobic, body shaming, contemptuous of people who may have a lower IQ, any remark that can be seen as degrading to a person or group….

They apologize for their actions…

Does society forgive them?

Why or why not?

Can you tell a joke without being derogatory to someone or something?

What do they say…humor is tragedy plus time?

Let’s skip to public figures who err in their choice of speech…

Ellen is now hated because she’s mean, Kevin Hart is a homophobe, Paula Deen is a racist…

Say they apologize:

Do we accept their words now?

Or do we just keep thinking about their words then?

Are they guilty for the rest of their lives?

Or at some point do they get paroled, released from word prison?

Have you ever made a statement that could be considered mean? Against a group or anything?

I know I’ve been known to tell a blonde joke or two…

And what about “It’s OK if I say that because I am of that group…”

For example- I’m ethnically Italian- Am I allowed to make Mafia jokes?

Genetically, I’m about 12% Asian- can I say that’s why I’m good at math? Or why I’m not the greatest driver?

Everyday I hear or read about another person or company that we are supposed to ban…

I want to know who the morality police are…and I want them recorded 24/7…

I want to know why we seem to have slipped back into the world of Puritanism…I can only guess that we have a generation of kids who have never read the Scarlet Letter…

But what letter should these new brand of offenders wear? What should we stitch to their shirt to show the world who they truly are? To make them feel their shame and humiliation every day…

Should we accept apologies?

Or should we punish them forever?

137 thoughts on “They Said what?

  1. Went to bed last night thinking along these lines.. in 2018 a library association decided to cancel the Laura Ingalls Wilder name from an award bearing her name due to the racist language they said did not reflect their current/ modern definition of inclusiveness. (she was writing her books from 1932-43 for crying out loud) I went to bed thinking, boy, I wished someone would do some digging and get specific details of each board members life who made that asinine decision. I”m guessing there is a lot of “dirt” to be found on each one, depending on your definition of dirt. I have it, you have it, we all have said and done things that would not pass someones definition of good…give it another 25 years, and we will all be in the dog house/ whoop, I just said something that will be offensive to PETA

    Liked by 6 people

    1. That’s just it. One day…how many things said and done today will be deemed offensive, but really…history is repeating itself. We’re going back to the times when no one will say anything…it’s sad how in our attempt to be equal we’ve made ourselves more beholden to someone else’s rules


  2. What I find peculiar is that the same people who are castigating others so vehemently are often the same who claim that they have liberal views and have a forgiving nature!! Gahh I think the hypocrites have taken over the asylum.

    Liked by 5 people

    1. You read my mind! How can you be liberal and yet not accept an apology? Believe in redemption? We’ve gone too far n castigating people. We have all said and done stupid things. All of us. I don’t want to be held accountable for every stupid thing I’ve ever done…no one should

      Liked by 5 people

      1. Yes, I believe you are right! I am rather confused that we are even having this discussion. This spiteful streak is one I do not recall noting even ten years ago and yet it seems so prevalent today 😦

        Liked by 1 person

      2. That’s my worry. How far are we away from burning people at the stake and branding letters to their chests? Every day my daughter tells me if someone else, or something else we are supposed to boycott. How do we even know if what they’re accused of is true?

        Liked by 4 people

      3. Yes, the notion of presumed-innocence is rapidly vanishing it seems. My fear is that once this group-think becomes entrenched, how just will our society be? Perhaps I am fretting unduly and this is part of the voyage to a more just society. Sure doesn’t seem that way though.

        Liked by 1 person

      4. My youngest son tells me that too. He says don’t use that phrase you will offend some people. I am stunned and say what? Certain comments are innocent are perceived as condescending. Then again, I used to cringe when my mom in law would be telling me a story and use racial modifiers to describe people. The Latin woman, the black doctor, the jewish woman, that catholic man, the Filipino nurse. My late husband would try to explain to her that she didn’t need an adjective to describe these people. She never understood how racist it made her sound. Sometimes people are just ignorant.
        However, in today’s work place you need to be careful. Today’s young people are not tolerating it. I think perhaps they are right. We can’t go back and judge people from a different era but today, you have to be more cognizant of your words.

        Liked by 1 person

      5. Agree that we should all be cognizant of our words. But that means everyone. I think this is an Orwellian all animals are equal, but some are more equal than others. I went to a comedy club last year with my goddaughter. I’d wager that 90% of the jokes made fun of people…

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      6. True. Comedy is interesting. And often a matter of taste. But somethings aren’t funny. We can tease or make fun of our own” groups” but you can’t cross the line. I can joke about being an over protective Jewish mother but a gentile woman can’t say it. Just like a white comedian can’t joke about a person of color. You just can’t. We can laugh at ourselves. But nobody else can. Then it’s not funny it crosses into being a slur.

        Liked by 1 person

      7. I know. There’s a comedian I like, Mike Birbiglia. When we saw him live, as part of his act, he talks about how jokes offend people and he does this riff, and sure enough someone got up and walked out (he was telling a story about how he made a peanut joke and someone got offended because peanut allergies are serious) so, anything can be a joke, and anyone can be offended

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      8. Yep. I think perhaps jokes need to be preceded with … no jokes are meant to offend anyone alive or dead… or a warning… these jokes may be offensive…That comedian Andrew dice clay was so sexist but I remember years ago people protested his act. He said he wasn’t sexist but the character he played was. It was show biz. But it was still offensive. So some people still went to see him. Everyone has to take some responsibility… argh!

        Liked by 1 person

  3. I say forgiveness is the only way to move forward. Think about all the great books and movies being banned, the names of schools being changed. “Gone With the Wind” is banned on TV. Abraham Lincoln and Dianne Feinstein are no longer allowed as names on schools. It’s getting insane.

    Liked by 3 people

  4. There is a huge difference between words and actions. I don’t trust people’s words, but I do pay attention to their actions. Too many times, people easily say “sorry, didn’t mean that” only when they are caught out. They may even quiet down the things they say, but their actions still speak loudly. When someone is genuinely remorseful about the things they’ve said and done and attempt to make an effort to correct or change themselves, then sure, they absolutely deserve second chances. Reality though is that bad actions tend to stay with a person for life (though I also see that is a very selective thing and depends on the person because there are those that practically get away with murder) and people will be held to their pasts. It is why so many people that have committed crimes and paid for them struggle to make a reasonable living, too many people are willing to hold those crimes against them indefinitely. It is why we attempt to teach our kids to think before they speak or act, because words and actions are like burrs and tend to stick to you.

    Liked by 3 people

      1. Yes and no. Has it been taken to extremes? Yes. At the same time, people are finally being held accountable for their words and behavior instead of being excused for being or acting like a horrible human being. Like everything else, there should be a balance.

        Liked by 1 person

      2. Agreed. Some deserve to be taken to task. But others? My daughter told me we are supposed to cancel James cordon now for his portrayal of a gay man in The prom, which would include not watching the movie. My thought was, do we tell people not to watch a LGBQT+ movie with a positive message that could help people feel better about their gender identity because the lead character played “too gay”? We have to look at each case individually and think about the crime and the punishment.

        Liked by 1 person

  5. I have strong opinions about our privatized prison system and do not believe it works to rehabilitate and resocialize. There ought to be a time in which yes, we do forgive and move on, because it’s what we’ve agreed to do as a society, yet we don’t. So once a person does their time, it’s the greater society that’s not holding up their end of the deal and recognizing the payment was made in full.

    Also, I do not forgive or forget. Once a racial slur, misogynist comment, homophobic or anti-trans statement is made, there’s no undoing that. There are plenty of jokes to be made out of wordplay or riddles or cute animals. But the unchosen characteristics of a person should not be jokes. For the people who do make those kinds of statement/jokes, I simply cut them out of my life. They’ve shown me who they are, and I want no part of it.

    Liked by 3 people

  6. Totally agree with you on this. You’ve touched on it already but it’s that they call themselves liberal/s that bothers me. You cannot, by definition, be liberal through censorship – it doesn’t matter about your motivation or your good intentions. Censorship is neccessarily and irrefutably not liberal.

    If I were more greatly concerned about the opinions of others I’d be forced to wonder what I’m supposed to call myself as an actual liberal. Ooh, I can see how this could devolve into a rant – the generation in question is, alas, my generation and my younger siblings. I’ll avoid ranting and leave you with this:

    If I ever meet a gay person who doesn’t like gay jokes, I’ll know I’ve met a person in whom I have no interest.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. I refuse to identify as anything but an independent. I take an issue and then I decide where I stand on it. I don’t let others tell me what my opinion is supposed to be. I think we are treading a very fine line right now. I don’t like the “telling on our neighbor” philosophy that seems to be the new way of thinking.

      Liked by 1 person

  7. Absolutely, it’s an absurd postion to follow “party lines” (and just to clarify, I mean I’m a liberal in terms of philosophy, not attached to any political parties with such name. In fact the idea of me being attached to a political faction would cause anyone who knows me to chuckle.)

    I understand your feeling about the fine line, looking at developments in recent times, it is a true miracle that we have not already gone over the ‘tipping point’.

    Conversely though I do tend to take a slightly optimistic view. If, as you say, history is repeating itself, we at least, this time, know we can weather that storm and any others. As Chaplin said, “so long as men die, liberty will never perish.”

    Liked by 2 people

    1. I get your use of the term liberal, though while I consider myself a social liberal, there would be those who would say I’m not…but that’s a whole other blog. I think we need to stop and look at our actions, and if our actions are actually solving problems, instead of masking the real issues because we don’t want to actually try to tackle them

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Hammer meet the nail head. Are we/they actually addressing the problem, or are we/they just doing something because one has to be seen to be doing something?

        Reductionist, I know – because those people believe they’re actually doing SOMETHING, as opposed to just something.

        Can I go entirely speculative here? We, in Western countries, have lost something to fight against. We want to tackle societal problems. But , in those countries, largely, the civil rights movement (I regret to inform both sides of the argument) won, stonewall won, gay marriage is the norm in the west; and NO sensible person thinks a woman is less than a man on a prima facie basis. But we so desperatlely want to fight. Maybe that’s just what people do. No person ever fought believing they were fighting for the bad guys. But we/they’re now fighting the wrong people and the wrong ideas.

        Gay rights, civil rights, women’s rights – we’ve settled these matters. Other countries not so much – I’m not saying which – but we, you all, know. But David has no interest any longer in facing Goliath, the outcome is too uncertain – the David of today wants to fight regular Joe, because that’s “fair”.

        😔 aah. This, it seems, is a topic that I can’t not rant on. 🤣

        Liked by 1 person

      2. I’m not sure how we define fair and equal any more. A few months ago I did a dystopian piece on what it’s like to be truly “fair”….people weren’t so impressed with it


      3. I’ve popped into your blog a few times in my short time here and always been impressed. I’d love a link if it’s convenient, though I know of course I could scroll and find it myself lol.

        “So-called equality is the most inequitable; for when the same respect is accorded to the highest and the lowest (who must be present in every nation), equity in itself is most unequal.”

        Cicero wrote that in c.52 BC. Cycles of history, indeed. Your concern, if that’s the word, that this generation hasn’t read The Scarlet Letter echoes my concern that this generation doesn’t read. At. All.

        Liked by 1 person

      4. We simultaneously want to be unique and part of the herd…if you don’t side with others you’re bad, but if you take a stance that’s unpopular you’re bad….


  8. Can’t say that I’ve noticed much different going on around me. Same as it ever was. Bad jokes, bad behavior, bad people mocking other people in an attempt to feel powerful. Like so many things in our society, I shrug and go my own way.

    Liked by 2 people

  9. My eldest and youngest are 12 years apart..and it’s the youngest who is (sadly) part of this zero tolerance culture. What’s the difference? Growing up with the internet? facebook? It’s become more vogue to state who or what you are against than who or what you are for these days and there is absolutely no redemption for those who have strayed from present-day orthodoxy. These “kids” seem to be creating exclusive morality country clubs with membership requirements so narrow that they become nothing more than cauldrons of mental and political incest. Honestly, i don’t get it..

    Liked by 3 people

      1. Against my better judgment, I’ll be serious for a moment. A society that no longer offers forgiveness or a path to redemption will inevitably find itself in a very dark place. That mentality will eventually eat everyone. Including and especially those who purvey such intolerance.

        Liked by 1 person

  10. I’ve rarely seen a more perfect summary of the human condition. We have this unique, so far as we can tell, individuality. A sense of SELF. And yet we are perhaps the most enhanced animal in social terms because, primarily – I was going to say among other things but primarily is, I think, more accurate -, of language.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Have you noticed people use definitions of words as ammunition? If you use a word with the dictionary definition, you may be told that you’re being pedantic. However, if the exact definition of a word meets the “oppositions” criteria, they’ll shout what it “means”. A skilled orator/writer can use the same words to argue both sides of a coin. Can be done with statistics too


    1. Yup. I almost went into this but I didn’t want to wander too many paths. Do we separate art from artist? Are we allowed to love an author, painting, song if the artist turns out to be less than desirable? Do we leave the boundaries of art alone, allowing that anything can be said/done as long as it conforms to the school of art makes you think and therefore there are no limits? Or do we start censuring art as well?

      Liked by 2 people

      1. It’s a slippery slope. I think that we know way too much, too soon, about too many celebrities. A hundred years ago who knows what skeletons lurked in the closets of artists? That’s not to say a artist who also turns out to be a murderer should be lauded, but I imagine some have been in the past and no one was the wiser.

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  11. I think Ellen is a bit overrated. Not really surprised that there are two different Ellens—the funny, seemingly nice talk show host—and the more private Ellen that is “mean”. This remark could be about any celebrity—but I think people get frustrated that we are pushed to buy in to a certain version of Ellen that puts her on a pedestal. What I did think was funny though was how outraged people were when she was seen at a football game with former president George W. Bush. Certainly not something I was outraged about.

    Regarding second chances–I have a state issued nursing license. I am a middle aged woman. If I do something outrageous my employer can fire me. My state Board of Nursing can put me on probation, suspend me or permanently revoke my nursing license. If I decide tonight I am going to get involved in a drunken brawl–I am endangering my nursing license. The consequences could be that given my age and other factors—I might never have a second chance. Or if I do I have a second chance it will be dramatically reduced how “attractive” I look to future employers and what sort of opportunities would be available to me.

    I don’t think people like Mike Tyson or Woody Allen need second chances in the court of public opinion—you might disagree. I won’t give dollars to entertainers that are questionable human beings. I have cancelled in my head those public figures who have spread vaccine misinformation.

    I tend not to “cancel” businesses unless they have outrageous businesses practices.

    My 18 year old son made a comment that he hoped there weren’t too many “woke” Super Bowl commercials.

    I’m not Italian—but I think that is one of several ethnicities that there is still open season to make jokes about and stereotype in a way we aren’t allowed to do with other ethnicities. Same with religion–went to Catholic schools—have received many unsolicited comments about being raised Catholic—a choice that was made for me by my parents.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. It’s funny about the woke comment. After I wrote my blog I was scanning The NY Times headlines…one of the articles stated that French official fear the “woke” policies that Americans are adapting…so there you go. Completely agree on the Ellen outrage that she was in the box with Bush…was that worth commenting about? I don’t like putting celebrities on pedestals…I don’t care if she’s mean, if she’s phony, or whatever. To me she’s a human who is flawed and will make mistakes. She just happens to be on TV. I totally get the money thing…do you pay to see people you think have done bad things. I understand your point of view. I was appalled a few years ago when people were complaining that Roman Polanski wasn’t allowed in the US to accept an award…his crime shouldn’t be pushed aside. I just read a book for book club…the book dealt with some topics I don’t like, yet it won a Booker Prize. Should books with disturbing themes be eligible for prizes? There’s so many facets to art, entertainment and artists….but now I’ve wandered…my main problem is some people are allowed to be picked on, like boomers and Italians, yet others are sacred. Let’s at least level the playing field. But in the end, I don’t think any of us are innocent enough to decide to boycott people or companies because of what they said or didn’t say. We loved Goya when Obama praised them, but hated them when Trump praised them…how is that fair? Sorry for the meandering but you got me thinking about a lot of stuff!!


  12. We wouldn’t be able to read anything written by Agatha Christie or Sir Arthur Conan Doyle because at the time they wrote their stories their clues were often based on stereotypical assumptions. They were racist and anti Semitic in nature based on typical comments during the time their books were written. These days those descriptions are left out or changed. And we forget about them. I love Agatha’s characters. And I’m still going to enjoy Miss Marple and Poirot. The thing is, every now and then I’ll read an early copy of a book and the anti Semitic comments hurt. I had to censor certain Holmes adventures because of racism and sexism when I taught. Because it wouldn’t have been appropriate. We may still enjoy the stories. But, I’m aware that Agatha was still bigoted. She was a product of her time I suppose. But it doesn’t make it right. I think we can forgive certain written comments as the ignorance of times gone by. But in today’s modern world there’s really no excuse. I guess it depends on what was said or written whether we forgive and forget. Sometimes people say dumb things when they are young. I think it’s a case by case situation.

    Liked by 3 people

    1. Agreed. Some indiscretions are unforgivable, or if there’s a continued pattern of behavior. But one off hand comment, a joke that we told using poor judgement…I can’t condemn those people for life. I told someone else that I was more offended by the people complaining that Roman Polanski wasn’t allowed in The US a few years ago. To me, what he did was unforgivable. But I just can’t boycott everyone because I know I’m not perfect. I’ve definitely said things that I’ve regretted later. Add to that, what kind of friend tapes someone and then sells the tape to TMZ? Then we’ll add the “hey boomer” jokes that now dominate everything…is it ok to mock us cause we’re old? Or even the original Karen meme (before it became a symbol of racism) that was a meme to disparage older white women who take charge. That’s not so nice either…it’s just another way if shutting women up. We all have to be on our best behavior to not mock anyone?

      Liked by 1 person

  13. The morality police. No one is safe from their shaming tools on social media and in the mainstream “news.” I’m going to reread Animal Farm and 1984. They should be required reading in schools, but I fear they will be banned instead.

    Liked by 3 people

  14. Lots of good stuff in here – as usual, you ask a question and let your readers do all the hard work. 🙂

    I will merely point out that if there were no second chances there would be no quoting of Animal Farm. It was written by a man who served in the colonial police and wrote about shooting an elephant. Both would be enough to disqualify him from respectability in todays woke world.

    I could say more, but I’m lazy and I want a quiet life.


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  15. We have evolved into a society where people are judged by their worst action and/or words. The hypocrisy is stunning in that unity and inclusiveness only apply if “the other side” complies and agrees with the side doing the criticizing. Civil discourse is not encouraged and too many times, opposing viewpoints are vilified. Forgiveness and second chances are essential. Without them, no one could hope to change their life. True, actions/words have consequences but that is not the same as forgiveness and offering second chances for those who are truly penitent.

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  16. Glass houses. If there is a zero tolerance rule for people who say something they shouldn’t say, then what of the Twitterati and the FaceBookers and all the many social media judges? Do they not have to be called to answer for something they said once?

    Forgiveness is growth. For both parties.

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    1. Agreed. We are so busy disagreeing, nothing is going to get done. Yes, we can choose to do something or not do something. But then we can’t complain when things stay the same or get worse

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Someone I work with swore off Ellen after she was spotted with George W. at a game. She was uber offended that Ellen was GASP! choosing friends according to people she connected with rather than doing so for PR reasons.

        The nerve of Ellen! LOL

        Liked by 1 person

  17. Sadly, the people who believe most in censorship are usually the same people who say the most offensive things about anyone they don’t agree with. They can’t seem to understand that censorship will muzzle everyone, and that no one is perfect. I guess we’re just going to have to not name any school or building, ever, because no one is perfect and no one hasn’t done something offensive. Obviously, there has to be a some kind of reasoning here. It will be interesting to see how all this plays out.

    Liked by 4 people

    1. After I wrote this piece, I saw that The NY Times published an article saying how the French are very afraid of the American woke culture. I figure one of two things: people will consider the NYT a non reputable source and therefore fake news, or people will say that what other countries think of us doesn’t matter

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  18. I don’t think people should be cancelled just because of one faux pas, if it really was a faux pas. Comedians spend lots of time crafting a joke, so I honestly believe when they apologize, it’s so they don’t lose fans. Specifically, because you used KHart as an example, what he initially said was he wasn’t sorry (on IG). He had a whole rant about how he didn’t care about what people thought.

    Same thing goes for the other examples. I don’t know if PDeen is racist, but I do know that I wouldn’t want her calling the work staff something they felt was derogatory, whether they use it among themselves, or not. I guess my point is that I still don’t think she felt it was wrong. She didn’t want to lose money.

    There’s also a book called The Five Ways to Apologize (or something like that). Merely saying “I’m sorry” and then hoping your fans forgive you, is not enough. It should be followed up with changed behavior.

    Plus, I hold grudges sometimes lol For example, I still won’t go to Papa Johns, even though John is no longer even the CEO :-/

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Hays the thing…we can’t just arbitrarily cancel out someone or something. Is there a pattern of bad behavior? Are they truly evil people? I also worry about the collateral damage. Sure…boycott Kelvin Hart…but how about the people that work on his movies? Do they deserve to be boycotted because of something he said? I don’t want anyone to ever say something bad about anyone. But that’s not going to happen. Before we cancel, we have to decide if the punishment fits the crime. Right now, I think we are walking a very very fine line, and I think we have to be real careful. Oddly, after I wrote this post, I saw the The NY Times did an article about how France is worried about our woke culture…if I thought this was going to fix existing problems, I’d be all for it…but I’m afraid it’s a smokescreen….and while it’s up, nothing changes or gets better…it may even get worse

      Liked by 1 person

      1. I know…I’m going to touch in this on Friday. So many people I know, strong, resilient people have hit the COVID wall….we have to start taking care of one another

        Liked by 1 person

  19. If everyone was to be completely honest, and because not one single person on earth is perfect, we would all have to admit to saying or doing some of the things mentioned. Imagine if our entire lives were put on a screen…it’s unfair to categorize people or shame them forever. We’re human. On another note, I miss the days when people weren’t so uptight. Everyone is so easily offended. It takes too much work and time that I don’t have to live offended.

    Liked by 4 people

  20. I’ve always taken issue with the states’ legislatures convening every year to pass more laws to justify their existence. I’d say meeting once every three years is plenty at the state level. The legislators feel compelled to pass more laws, to criminalize more and more behavior. Aside from public opinion and banishment, which is bad enough in itself, at some point it reaches the level of absurdity

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  21. Good questions. I depends on who you are and what is acceptable. It is okay to make fun of people for something’s and not others. For example, I am short. I have endured years of snide comments, some quite mean. Yet often the comments come from those who would throw a fit if their body image was in question. A few years ago I had a gal at the hospital constantly make comments on my small stature. I repeatedly asked her to stop. This continues on in front of many for years. Never an apology. One day she came up and said, hey dwarf, do you make yourself puke to stay so small. I was stunned. I was a healthy small and I stayed my size through exercise and diet. I replied, No, but do you binge to stay so big? (She was overweight). Well she went to HR and I was told that her saying comments to me about my size, although not nice was not cruel compared to me making a comment on her large size. Thankfully many co workers went to HR in my defense and reported her years of comments to me. So Even though I had to apologize to her, I never got in trouble, only because of my coworkers. Now I had no problems with apologizing but I never got one and the double standard still makes me mad. Short discrimination is still discrimination.

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  22. I may get some hate on here for my thoughts on this but… a crime is committed when you cause harm to someone or commit fraud. That is the technical definition in the Criminal Code of Canada.

    For far too long we have been sliding a slippery slope of allowing ourselves to be told speech can be a crime. I firmly believe that until my words can punch you my words are not criminal. Offensive to some, probably. Some would think some things I say are racist or hateful. Those people don’t know me and are only judging my words not my actions.

    Offense is taken, not given. If you are offended by something someone says? You TOOK that offense. You have choices other than taking offense. Speak up about what the person said and open a dialogue. Walk away and ignore them. Tell others how that persons comment made you feel. But trying to say words are a crime doesn’t fly with me.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. It IS a crime if it is against the law, or action can be taken if there is a code of conduct in place and it forbids offensive language etc.
      I was the Union Rep at the school where I taught. A teacher could get suspended if she/he was in violation of her contract or the code of conduct. People get fired from their jobs all the time for breaking their contract. A rule is a rule. You may not do jail time but if you sign a contract or take an oath of office and you fail to uphold it then there are actions that can legally be taken.

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      1. Well, yes and no.
        If you are dealing with state laws and state contracts or county contracts they are considered laws. Public schools fall into that category.
        If there is a breach in a contract an employer can take an employee to court if federal or state statutes were violated. Then laws were indeed broken. Any government worker is subject to that. I taught school for 36 years and for more than 20 years was a Union Representative because most teachers weren’t aware of their rights. Public school teachers work for the state. Any Violation of code of conduct or contractual laws are considered breaking the law and actionable.

        Liked by 2 people

      2. However, in other contracts you’d have to consult a contract lawyer as to whether a law was broken. I do know that People can ask a court to enforce a contract and make sure it’s carried out.


      3. That is where Canadian laws differ a bit from the States I think. I have known teachers or government employees to get fired over code of conduct violation but never taken to court unless it breaks an actual law.

        Also in Canada the courts recognize the difference between legal and lawful. I won in court in a land dispute because even though they said what I did was illegal I made the argument it was within my rights under common law. The judge agreed.

        Liked by 2 people

      4. How interesting. It would seem Canada is more enlightened that the US.. My experience is strictly within the school system. I still was a teacher, but also as a Union representative I would be asked to sit in at various teacher conferences to make sure the rights of the teachers were upheld. The school system is more open minded lately, however its still very strict and often calls teachers to tasks if they think they aren’t being held up to “perfect” standards. For years it was in the contract that public school teachers couldn’t be on social media. Two teachers were fired for being in a same sex relationship on social media, after a parent copied a photo of them kissing to the school board.. The Union represented them. The photo was just a kiss over dinner. Nothing offensive. A group of parents were outraged. But the parents lost. That court case changed things. The teachers won and were hired back. But then the school board tried to bully teachers into saying they weren’t allowed on Facebook any more. I refused to take my account down. I had just become a grandmother at the time and I wanted to post pics of my new grandson. So, I spoke at a school board meeting demonstrating why they shouldn’t prohibit FB use.They really felt silly when I presented a power point of my FB page with my posts all of my new grandson. I proved how my family and friends around the country could all keep connected and up to date this way. It worked. They actually added an addendum to the contract saying social media was allowed but without the following violations. (unbecoming conduct, appropriate vocabulary, no inappropriate photos etc.)

        Liked by 2 people

      5. In Canada we have teachers that challenge far worse LOL And they get away with it for the most part. Sometimes they don’t even get fired, just reprimanded.

        I would like to think Canada is more enlightened but I also know that most people don’t know the law well enough to make the argument of legal vs lawful in court and win. My ex was really into studying those type of things and I learned a lot from him about it. Enough to argue successfully for myself without a lawyer. In fact the prosecutor who came after me ended up getting fired over it in the end. Still, it was a very harrowing experience. I had never been in any kind of trouble before and suddenly they were trying to charge me with forestry charges that would have put me in jail for 5 years and 100K in fines.

        The irony? My ex didn’t argue as successfully for himself and he ended up serving eight months.

        Liked by 2 people

      6. Thanks. I actually find the law pretty boring most of the time. It drove me nuts that it was all my ex talked about LOL But when it became a matter of my life/freedom I pulled it together enough to get the job done.

        Liked by 1 person

  23. I think everybody deserves a second chance, though I’d draw the line at third chances, I guess. The fact that Pete Rose is still barred from the MLB Hall of Fame is a great example. He apologized a long time ago and was one of the greatest players of all time. Cut him some slack already.

    Liked by 1 person

      1. Yeah, I like Pete. I met him when my oldest son was into collecting baseball cards and I’d take him to shows to buy or trade cards. Pete was at one and he got him to sign his card. This was back in the 80’s and all the kids still thought the guy was great no matter what. I have to say he couldn’t t have been any nicer.

        Liked by 1 person

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